| marathongirl
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I had some questions about marathoning and the SBD. I was redirected over here and hope I can tap into the collective experience of this board. I am running my first marathon May 4th and have been training since October. I am up to 19 miles this coming weekend, then I only have a few more long runs after that. I only run 3-4 days/week. I am a novice runner, having only picked up the sport about a year ago (I'm 40). I am at the top of my "healthy BMI" range but for running would love to be closer to the bottom of that range (132 instead of 158). How do you endurance runners deal with the whole glucose refueling issue on long runs? I absolutely need my Clif Shot about every hour or so during my long runs.
Thanks! |
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Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:38 pm |
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| luvs_torun
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marathongirl wrote: I had some questions about marathoning and the SBD. I was redirected over here and hope I can tap into the collective experience of this board. I am running my first marathon May 4th and have been training since October. I am up to 19 miles this coming weekend, then I only have a few more long runs after that. I only run 3-4 days/week. I am a novice runner, having only picked up the sport about a year ago (I'm 40). I am at the top of my "healthy BMI" range but for running would love to be closer to the bottom of that range (132 instead of 158). How do you endurance runners deal with the whole glucose refueling issue on long runs? I absolutely need my Clif Shot about every hour or so during my long runs.
Thanks!
Awesome!
(btw I had my best marathon time at 40!!)
If your race is May 4th.... this may not be the best time to concentrate on weight loss... (after the marathon would be a good time to try "tweaking" your diet with your exercise..) because you definitely want to finish!
IMO.... if you're already up to the 19 mile long runs... you just gotta start in at least phase 2. :D
You'll likely need to add in "extra" grain portions also.
I never use gels (not saying they are bad on a long run.. I just don't).... mostly just Gatorade on really long runs, however, I have been known to pop some m&m's for an extra energy boost..
What are you doing now (diet and running-wise) to fuel yourself?
Is it working for you during your runs?
BTW... are you training alone or with a group? |
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Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:58 pm |
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| luvs_torun
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Here is an article from Runner's World you might find interesting also..
Nutrition & Weight Loss :Weight Loss
The Runner's Diet
To lose weight without sacrificing energy or performance, you have to eat the right foods at the right times. Here's how.
By Madelyn H. Fernstrom Ph.D., C.N.S.
It seems almost impossible that runners could become overweight. All that running, all those calories burned along city streets and down park paths--it just doesn't seem right (or fair).
The problem is that we read about the performance-oriented nutritional habits of ultrathin elite runners (lots of carbo-loading and truckloads of energy bars, gels, and drinks), then assume that as recreational runners we should do the same. But we're not elite runners. We're average people who use running to manage our weight, increase our energy, and lead healthy lives.
The number of calories you need for running depends on your body weight, how fast you run, how long you run, and your training schedule. If you run for recreation, you have a very different calorie need than a competitive runner. A 140-pound recreational runner burns around 8.5 calories per minute while running a 12 minute mile. A 110-pound competitive runner burns around 13.3 calories per minute while running a 6-minute mile.
Think about this scary fact: It takes only 100 extra calories a day to gain 10 pounds in a year. That's one high-calorie prerun snack that you didn't need. Or one unnecessary bottle of sports drink before a 30-minute walk. The extra weight many runners carry around is simply the result of eating for energy or performance--with little regard for total calories. But calories do count, and as runners we tend to underestimate the amount we eat and overestimate the amount we burn.
What you need to do is match your eating plan to your running habits. You need to know exactly when to eat those carbohydrate-rich foods that will give you the energy you need to run well.
You also need to know when to consume the lean proteins and heart-healthy fats that will keep you satiated while still losing weight. You need the Runner's Diet.
The Runner's Diet helps you determine the real number of calories you need to maintain or lose weight based on your current running schedule. It's a 50-25-25 eating plan, where 50 percent of your calories come from carbohydrates, 25 percent from protein, and 25 percent from fat. With half of your calorie intake coming from carbs, the diet provides you with plenty of readily available fuel for your runs. And with the rest of your calories split evenly between proteins and fats, you feel full longer, which is key to losing weight. The diet also focuses your carbohydrate intake around your runs and emphasizes the right proteins and fats for all other meals to optimize performance and weight loss. Finally, you'll have lots of choices when deciding what to eat. To start the Runner's Diet, follow this simple, six-step process.
Step 1
Determine Your Daily Calorie Goal
To estimate your daily calorie needs for maintaining your current weight, take your present weight and multiply by 13. That number covers your metabolic needs for the day, factoring in a bit of light activity. So if you weigh 180 pounds, you need about 2,340 calories per day. To lose a pound a week, you must then create a calorie deficit of 500 calories a day (3,500 calories equals one pound).
How many calories you can cut from your diet depends a lot on how much you're eating right now. There's a big difference between cutting 500 calories if you're eating 1,500 a day than if you're eating 3,000. But remember: Weight loss is a lot easier when you factor in your running mileage (1 mile = 100 calories). So your calorie deficit can--and should--be created by eliminating some calories from your daily diet and increasing the number you burn per day through running.
Step 2
Distributing Your Calories
After you've determined the total number of calories you should be consuming per day to meet your weight-loss goals, divide those calories so that 50 percent of them come from carbohydrates, 25 percent come from protein, and 25 percent come from fat. So, for example, if you've determined that your daily calorie goal is 1,800 calories, then 900 of those calories should come from carbohydrates, 450 from protein, and 450 from fat. Remember: You're not striving to have every food you eat meet this ratio. You're simply aiming to get your total daily calorie intake to fall within these guidelines.
Step 3
Selecting Carbohydrates
Lots of runners will look at the 50-percent carbohydrate guideline and think they'll go into macaroni withdrawal. They'll argue it's not enough--that they need 60 percent or more. After all, carbohydrates are the body's preferred energy source.
While it's true that elite runners need a very high percentage of calories from carbohydrates, recreational runners simply don't need as many carbs. Taking in 50 percent of your daily calories from carbohydrate sources will provide you with all the energy you need.
Because high-carb foods sustain you during your workouts, they are best eaten just before and just after your runs. When choosing which carbs to eat, opt for those that are fiber-rich and have a high water content to keep you feeling full.
Carbs to Choose Often
Fruits (about 60 calories per serving)
Apple, orange, pear, nectarine: 1 small (tennis ball size)
Banana: 1 small (5 inch)
Peach, plum: 1 medium (fist size)
Grapefruit: 1/2 whole fruit
Canteloupe: 1 cup
Berries: 1 cup
Fresh pineapple: 3/4 cup
Canned fruit (in its own juice): 1/2 cup
Low-Starch Vegetables (about 25 calories per serving)
Carrots, celery, cabbage, brussels sprouts, broccoli, cauliflower, eggplant, leeks, onions, green beans: 1 cup raw or 1/2 cup cooked
Green pepper: 1 whole
Asparagus: 7 spears cooked or 14 spears raw
Lettuce/raw greens: 1 cup 100-percent vegetable juice: 1/3 cup
Carbs to Choose with Caution (watch those portions!)
High-Starch Vegetables (about 80 calories per serving)
Beans (lima, navy, pinto): 1/3 cup
Corn: 1/2 cup
Peas/lentils: 1/2 cup
Baked white or sweet potato with skin: 1 small (tennis ball size)
Pasta/Rice (about 80 calories per serving)
Couscous (cooked): 1/3 cup
Brown or white rice (cooked): 1/3 cup
Noodles/pasta (cooked): 1/2 cup
Bulgur (cooked): 1/2 cup
Breads/Cereal/Crackers (about 80 calories per serving)
Tortilla (white or wheat): 1
100-percent whole-wheat bread: 1 slice
Mini-bagel: 1
English muffin: 1/2
Pretzels: 3/4 ounce or 8 sourdough nuggets
Popcorn (air popped): 3 cups
Saltine crackers: 6
Rice cakes (all varieties, large): 2
High-fiber cereals: 3/4 cup
Oatmeal: 2/3 cup cooked or 1 instant packet Step 4
Selecting Proteins
While protein's primary role is maintaining muscle integrity, it also satisfies hunger. Protein provides a greater feeling of fullness, ounce for ounce, than an equivalent amount of carbohydrate. The effect: You're content with fewer calories. That's why 25 percent of your calories should come from protein.
When you choose proteins, lean is always best. Fat adds flavor to protein--but also calories. So be sure to limit the number of calories in the protein sources you choose. A good rule of thumb: The fattier the protein, the smaller the serving.
Protein Picks
Very lean (about 35 calories per serving)
Chicken or turkey breast (skinless): 1 ounce
Fish fillet (all whitefish): 1 ounce
Canned, water-packed tuna: 1 ounce
Shellfish: 1 ounce
Egg whites: 2 large
Egg substitute: 1/4 cup
Lean (about 55 calories per serving)
Chicken or turkey (skinless dark meat): 1 ounce
Salmon, swordfish, herring, trout, bluefish: 1 ounce
Lean beef (flank steak, top round, ground sirloin): 1 ounce
Veal or lamb (roast or lean chop): 1 ounce
Pork (tenderloin): 1 ounce
Canadian bacon: 1 ounce
Low-fat hot dogs: 1
Low-fat luncheon meats: 1 ounce
Dairy Products (about 90 calories per serving)
Fat-free or 1-percent-fat cottage cheese (calcium fortified): 1 cup
Low-fat, sugar-free yogurt: 3/4 cup
Fat-free, sugar-free yogurt: 1 cup
Low-fat cheese (all types): 2 ounces
Step 5
Selecting Fats
Most dieters immediately start cutting fat. But instead of just cutting out junk-food sources of fat, they also cut fatty foods that are healthy, including nuts and nut butters, and olives and olive oil.
Foods with a little fat help slow the rate of digestion and provide a sense of fullness. Try to get 25 percent of your daily calories from good fats by selecting heart-healthy vegetable, nut, and fish sources.
Fats of Choice
Full-Calorie sources (about 50 calories per serving)
All oils: 1 teaspoon
Avocado (medium): 1/8
Almonds, cashews, filberts: 6
Peanuts: 10
Pistachios: 15
Olives (green or black): 8 medium
Peanut butter (creamy or chunky): 1 teaspoon
Reduced-Calorie sources (about 25 calories per serving)
Light tub margarine: 1 teaspoon
Light mayonnaise/salad dressing: 1 teaspoon
Light cream cheese: 1 teaspoon
Fat-free salad dressing: 1 tablespoon
Step 6
Establish an Eating/Running Pattern
The wild card in the 50-25-25 eating plan is how you distribute your calories throughout the day. That depends on your running schedule. Because you want to eat the bulk of your carbohydrate calories around the times when you will be active, you need to know ahead of time when you're going to exercise each day. Then select mostly carbohydrate-rich foods to fuel up beforehand or afterward. By eating most of your carbohydrate calories around your runs, you'll then eat most of your protein and fat calories the rest of the day when you're more sedentary.
Remember one other guideline when establishing your daily eating pattern: Don't go too many hours without eating or your brain will signal starvation mode and stimulate your appetite. So go ahead and have a morning, afternoon, and evening meal, along with snacks. Just make sure that when you tally up all your eating, you're still within your daily calorie range. |
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Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:01 pm |
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| oldpjams
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I don't run (I ride) so ignore me as you see fit. At a similar spot in training coaches won't let me cut many calories (as luvs suggests) -- no more than 1-200cal/day. That's no more than a couple of pounds a month weight loss.
As for food during activity, I prefer the gels and shot blocks to most of the liquids and bars. I find them easier to stomach. I don't think they have any effect on your diet as your body uses them immediately and it's not like you are going to get a big bloodsugar spike and go binge...you're in the middle of a run. |
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Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:21 pm |
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| marathongirl
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| Thanks so much for that article luvs! And you are right old jams, I really feel like those gels get put to use immediately. Diet wise I have just tried to make "healthy choices" and have lost about 10 lbs since summer. I had hoped to weigh less by this time in my training because I know that for every extra lb of body weight the knees experience about 4 lbs of extra force with running. I am really trying to protect myself from injury because I've got my sights on a triathlon this summer and really just want to be able to run moderately for the rest of my life until I'm very very old, then I want to just walk. :wink: |
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Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:29 pm |
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| ArubaLover1105
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Ok, so to follow up...I posted similar question on the other board --not many responses.
I am training for a half marathon May 3. Up to 9 miles right now. My questions are what to eat:
Night before?
In the AM (race is at 7:30 am)
During?
After?
Currently my long runs are on the weekends and I usually eat a Clif bar about a half hour before the run.
What do all you veteran runners use during the race to refuel? (there are water and gatorade stops along the run)
This is my first race ever, including first time in my life I have ever hit this much mileage. Currently I am at an 8:45 min/mile pace! I hope I can make it through the race!! |
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Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:27 pm |
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| luvs_torun
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ArubaLover1105 wrote: Ok, so to follow up...I posted similar question on the other board --not many responses.
I am training for a half marathon May 3. Up to 9 miles right now. My questions are what to eat:
Night before?
In the AM (race is at 7:30 am)
During?
After?
Currently my long runs are on the weekends and I usually eat a Clif bar about a half hour before the run.
What do all you veteran runners use during the race to refuel? (there are water and gatorade stops along the run)
This is my first race ever, including first time in my life I have ever hit this much mileage. Currently I am at an 8:45 min/mile pace! I hope I can make it through the race!!
LOL..... well... I thought you got some "excellent" advice on the other board :wink: :D ........
Between the two boards... I am not sure there are that many who've run half's............. probably why so little response.... |
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Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:37 pm |
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| oldpjams
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Night before?
Normal, healthy dinner, with maybe an extra serving of grain at some point that day. You should have increased your daily intake for 2-3 days anyway.
In the AM (race is at 7:30 am)
Steel cut oatmeal, add peanut butter while it cooks or nuts after. Add raisins or dates, top with maple syrup (real). Have an egg on the side if you like. Get this in at least 2 hours before you run.
During?
Gel, shot blok, sport bean, bar, drink, whatever you can tolerate. Figure it out long before the event.
After?
PB&J or turkey or tuna on ww. Or, glass of skim chocolate milk at the very least. Or a recovery drink.
Just my .02 |
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Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:38 pm |
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| ArubaLover1105
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Yes, F.R.E.D gave me some awesome advice on the other board...I just wanted to see what else is out there.
Thanks for the information! I didn't even think about increasing my grain intake a few days before the event! |
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Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:49 pm |
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| luvs_torun
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Quote: I didn't even think about increasing my grain intake a few days before the event
Awww c'mon..... :P :wink:
From F.R.E.D. @ TOB
Awesome!!!
Personally, for a half and if you are up to nine miles in your training.... I probably wouldn't do anything much differently than you are doing now if it's working for you..
I posted this in the runner's thread awhile back....
Just some thoughts....
I wouldn't stress too much about the pasta party the night before.... they are more "social" and certainly not for getting a marathon (or half, or 10ks' worth of carbs in at one sitting..)...
Eating a mountain of pasta, bread, etc. the night before is sure to cause tummy aches or cramping during your run the next morning. (Not to mention making you extra thirsty..)
Instead of relying upon a huge pasta dinner the night before .... you could have a good, carb-laden breakfast or lunch. That gives the food plenty of time to move through your system. You can also get your carbs in two days prior if you think you might be too nervous to eat much the day before (...nerves...blech.....always a HUGE problem for me). IMO starting the "carb-loading" process a few days before is a good idea anyway (not pigging out.. just having extra portions). The glycogen will stay in your muscles until you run. Then just kind of graze on easily tolerated foods the day before.
Another good idea during training, be sure to practice your pre-run carbo-loading meal(s) so you'll have no surprises on race day.
If the Clif bar is working for you.... stick with it. If you're not using gels now.... you probably won't need them. Or if you like (and feel you need a boost around mile 8 or 9...) experiment with them during a training run.
After the race?? There will be a table full of goodies... fruits, bagels, juices....
For some reason I always liked a bagel w/cream cheese after a race..... a little carb a little protein....
Good luck!!!! |
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Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:53 pm |
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| ArubaLover1105
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| oh yeah...missed that part. :oops: That's what happens when you only get 4 hours of sleep.... |
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Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:00 pm |
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| luvs_torun
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ArubaLover1105 wrote: oh yeah...missed that part. :oops: That's what happens when you only get 4 hours of sleep....
:lol: !!!!
In any event, with where you are at now...... you should do very well! |
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Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:04 pm |
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| oldpjams
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| You also need to taper your activity for those 2-3 days for your body to go into glycogen supercompression. |
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Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:37 pm |
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| ArubaLover1105
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The training schedule we are using (Hal Higdon) has rest for 2 days prior and the mileage decreases to no more than 3 miles (normally during the week we are at 5 and long runs are saturday/sunday) during the week.
I think my biggest concern was breakfast. The marathon (Indianapolis Mini-Marathon-nation's largest :D ) starts at 7:30. We have to be in our corral by 7. We live about 35 minutes north of the city and then we have to park about a mile from the start. There are 35,000 runners and my friends who have done it in the past said it can take 30-60 minutes to even reach the start line once the race starts. I didn't know whether to eat a full breakfast or just eat a clif bar in the corral at around 7. I also do lots of mountain biking/trail riding and one time my friend and I met for breakfast at Bob Evans, had omelette and fruit and then he yakked right after we made it up the first climb :shock: I don't want to be "that girl" haha.
I think if I do the oatmeal/PB thing (which I LOVE) before we leave the house, I should have about a good 2 hours before I hit the starting line for it to digest.
Do you suggest using the "booster" (gels, bloks whatever) at specific mileage points? Or are there certain signs/symptoms to be on the lookout for to know when the right time to take one is? I have never used these before....
The ads say there is food at the finish line, but they are advertising cookies, chips, etc. Please tell me from prior knowledge that there will be something a little healthier to chow down on afterwards :( I can probably wait to get back to the car afterwards and eat something I packed because I am usually not hungry directly after my long runs....
Sorry this is so long...thanks for all the good advice!! |
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Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:45 pm |
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| luvs_torun
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If you decide on the oatmeal and PB... make sure you try that out ahead of time on a training run.... you don't want any surprises.
As far as gels.... etc. You are not using them now.... you're already running 9 miles in training... you're only having to run another 5k.... I'd just do what you are doing now... Gatorade at one or two of the stops might help as a "pick me up"... if you feel you need it.
I don't refuel at all during a 13 mile run.... (just water....)
The Hal Higdon program is a good one.... your pace is good, as is your mileage base... don't stress!! Enjoy!
The race sounds like a blast! :D
Oh... and personally... all the races I've done have lots of healthy stuff to eat post- race (along with some "junk").
(Though I could probably be talked into hitting the "Beer Garden"...) :D |
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Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:05 pm |
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