South Beach Phase 1 vs Atkins Induction

babice · Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:30 pm

CarolG wrote: The official SBD site says 2-3 cups of dairy total per day - this includes milk (skim/1%/soy) and yogurt (fat-free plain in Phase 1; can add flavored in Phase 2). Cheese is considered a protein in SBD and is not part of the dairy allowance.

Yes! Pardonez moi! I mistyped that info. I was looking at the "How to Adapt Your Meal Plans - Phase 1" outline and saw the 2 cups at each meal and forgot that it says "daily" next to it. Anyhoo, CarolG is correct about the recommended daily allowance for dairy. Solly! :D

babice · Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:32 pm

baptistbluerose wrote: This sounds pretty good. So I need to locate the allowable food list and print it and hang it in my kitchen. Is that on the "official" site or can I get it here? One more question... what is a legume?

Hi! In addition to CarolG's suggestion, I listed the "legumes" in a post to this thread way up above. :wink:

baptistbluerose · Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:35 pm

Redvelvetdragon, what veggies do you eat and how do you eat (cook) them?

RedRox · Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:37 pm

Well I think what RHSB was trying to get to (although I dislike interpreting for other people) is that a lot of aspects are similar and that the differences are more a matter of degree than overall intent, and that you need to look at both and find the one that seems to match better with your own lifestyle and needs and wants. For you, as for pretty much most of us here, that choice was SB. It doesn't necessarily make "Atkins Bad, South Beach Good" to borrow a Buffy-ism. I didn't investigate Atkins, but from what I have learned here, I don't think I would do well on it either. And frankly there are probably just as many people doing SB just as poorly as there are people doing Atkins poorly. I mean I sometimes cringe when I read some of the stuff here or when I go visit my parents who were the ones who hooked us into SB originally and I see some of the things they eat and the choices they make under the SB banner and I wonder if they read the same book I did!

I think there is a little of the push Atkins down, to elevate SB mentality here, especially since they now seem to be inextricably joined at the hip in any media reference. I'm really glad you find SB to be a healthier and better plan for you. I'm 100% behind it as well! But it is not necessarily a diet panacea that works for everyone and I have seen a lot of people who for various reasons just cannot stick with SB either and it doesn't really work for them either. If someone can follow Atkins better, make good choices and manage their weight and improve their blood chemistry, then more power to them! (And I think there are those on Atkins who do that successfully as well.) Any program that can help accomplish that in a country where weight management and blood chemistry issues are so prevalent, harmful and costly is a good thing!

And yes margarine is an OK substitute in moderation on this program. You want to use the softer tub styles that are trans-fat free. (Trans-fats are typically produced in the process of taking a liquid oil and solidifying it so that it remains relatively stable at room temps.) Smart Balance and Benecol are two that are often mentioned here. We use Bummels & Brown which uses a little yogurt as well. In a recent thread, I Can't Believe It's Not Butter (ICBINB in forum lingo) was determined to be not OK in the tub margarine, but OK in the spray due to some trans-fats (partially hydrogented oils) in the tub. But maybe they will reformulate it once they have to disclose the PHOs next year. Although the guidelines allow anyone to have a small amount on per serving size basis and still round down to zero so they can say they are trans-fat free and still have some in their product. You still have to read the labels!!

babice · Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:38 pm

Redvelvetdragon wrote: Can we have margarine on SBD? I think so but I'm still not totally clear on it.

Redvelvetdragon, the official site says that margarine is allowed and counts as a fat/oil. Here's what else it says:

Margarine - Chose those that do not contain Trans Fatty Acids such as Fleishmann's Premium Olive Oil or Smart Balance

:D

babice · Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:49 pm

redroxco wrote: I think there is a little of the push Atkins down, to elevate SB mentality here, especially since they now seem to be inextricably joined at the hip in any media reference. I'm really glad you find SB to be a healthier and better plan for you. I'm 100% behind it as well!

Hey! Just need to clarify that I am not, and never have been, anti-Atkins -- nor any other low carb diet for that matter. I always try to answer people's questions honestly about SBD and that's why I answered in this thread. I know lots n lots n lots of folks who are doing Atkins and happy with it. I do have the Atkins book and I did try it, that's why I know some of the info. The facts is the facts. I actually work with several guys who do better on an Atkins type diet....seems that if they eat any veggies or something like that, it's too many carbs for them. They do well on Atkins and they aren't hungry. Myself, on the other hand, I have high blood pressure and also have blood sugar issues....I just couldn't handle Atkins when I tried it. I do really well sticking to the SB WOE because I love veggies and beans, etc. Phase 1 is something I can stick to for two weeks and that's why I know I can stick to the SB WOE for life.

I've been eating the SBD way for a year now and it's been a good adjustment for me. And having been on this website for more than a year now, I know there are tons and tons of folks who come in here without (a) having read the book or (b) having found out that there have been revisions to the diet since the book. That's why I always like to answer folks questions if they start asking why this WOE is similar to any other low carb diet. Fact is, Dr. Agaston makes it very clear he doesn't want this to be considered a low carb diet. No two ways around that.

Just need to get my intentions clear. :D

RedRox · Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:13 pm

babice, I wasn't referring to any one particular poster, just an overall impression I have gotten after reading lots and lots of posts over the past 9-10 months on this board that discuss the Atkins vs SBD issues. Us beachers tend to be a bit defensive about it at times for a variety of reasons, and it is not for everyone, just like Atkins isn't for everyone. We all make our own choices, and obviously if we are posting here we chose SB, so we all have an inherent bias towards SB. Like I said, it doesn't really boil down to "Atkins Bad. South Beach Good." It is just what works for us and what we as individuals are most comfortable with. I think there are more similarities than differences, but the differences are the ones that matter to me in terms of following one or the other.

RedheadSouthBeach · Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:47 am

Thanks Red thats what I was getting at.

I really laugh when I read so much animosity against Atkins WOE here. On the Atkins site you hardly ever see any comments about SB. They also have some groups that follow Atkins doing low fat......humm whats that remind you of?

I think the passion shown from some confirms the fact they have made SB a way of life. It works for them.

If you watched the New Government Guidelines announcement you would have heard that Atkins and SB after their first phases met their criteria. Again I laughed when I heard them say........"but you don't have to buy any books or pay anyone money for this information. Just follow our guidelines on our website."

Bottom line? You have to find what works for you. We are not all created equal and there is NOT ONE right way.

Redvelvetdragon · Thu Jan 27, 2005 2:34 pm

Great conversation. I'm sorry if I sounded like I came down hard on Atkins. I was on it a good 8 months a couple of years ago and managed to lose a lot of weight, but I was very unhappy on it. I've tried to get on it again and have become terribly sick. Somethings wrong with a way of eating if you are curled up in bead queazy and dizzy with the runs for 2 weeks. And this happened to me every time. I guess I just don't react well on it and so I have some negative feelings about it. But hey, if someone is on it and happy then I applaud them!

As for how I cook my veggies, on Atkins I used to sautee in olive oil and put butter on them. Atkins does not allow Margarine. Frying was perfectly ok.

On SBD I plan on doing a lot of roasting with a bit of olive oil (not a ton, mind you). My favorite veggies are Eggplant, cauliflower and burssel sprouts. The eggplant you can buy whole and stick the entire thing in the oven till its soft and then scoop out the flesh, add a little taste of a good quality extra virgin olive oil and a little salt and you're done. For the cauliflower and brussel sprouts, I guess I'll steam those, but I really prefer sauteed. I guess I can still sautee if I use the spray. I'm planning on experimenting.

I also love Swiss Chard with garlic (that I must sautee), spaghetti squash (Microwave steamed or baked with a bit of margarine and some parmesan cheese) and zucchini.

babice · Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:52 pm

Hi! Again, just want to reiterate that I have no animosity against any low carb diet. The only time I get passionate (and frustrated) is when I read about folks who think the SB diet is supposed to be low carb. :) I know there are folks who do have animosity against low carb diets, but I understand that too. I tried two other types of diets and I get pretty animated if anyone ever asks me how they worked for moi. Bottom line is always which diet works for a person and which one can they stick to for life, right? :wink:

Thanks!

HollyP · Sat Jan 29, 2005 5:12 am

Hi Blue,

I did Atkin's last year and lost a lot of weight almost 20 lbs in 2 months, however SB is better for me. While the acceptable foods list is very similar the portions are not. I am a veggie lover and on Atkin's you have to count the carbs in your veggies to keep under your 20 per day allowed. I found all the counting and resitricting very tedious. For example, there is delicious cauliflower bake recipe in the Atkin's book that is SB friendly also. On Atkin's I could only have a 1/2 cup seving because Cauliflower is somewhat high in carbs. On SB I can have a larger serving this as my entree with a small serving of meat instead of the other way around. YUMMY!!

Also, anytime I cheated on Atkin's I had to go back on induction for a few days to get back into ketosis and I felt lethargic and weak while my blood sugar was bottoming out on day 2. With SB if I cheat, oh well, I pick up where I left off. My cravings are nowhere near as sever as with Atkin's. I like not having to measure and count every bite that goes into my mouth as long as I stay within the guidelines and feel I can eat this way for the rest of my life. When I quit Atkin's I put that 20 lbs back on within 4 months and then picked up an extra 10 over the next few months. UGH!!

I don't know who posted it but one of the people on this website added up the carbs in the menus in the book and came up with 50-60 carbs a day during P1. That's 3x what you are allowed in Atkin's.

This is just my experience. You should participate in whichever makes the most sense for you.

Cauliflower Bake

1 cup cauliflower
2- strips bacon chopped
onion
1 egg
1/4 cup shredded parmasean chz

Saute bacon and onion in butter (substitute margarine for SB)

Mix sauted onion and bacon in a bowl with the egg and cheese and Cauliflower to coat. Place in a covered casserole dish bake at 350 until cauliflower is tender/firm. ( about 30 min)

feemia99 · Sun Feb 27, 2005 6:40 pm

babice wrote: Dr. Agaston expressly does not want people measuring or limiting. On his website, he says that you should have a MINIMUM of 4 1/2 cups of veggies a day.

Is there a link somewhere to Dr. Agaston's website? Or are you referring to the "official" South Beach Diet website - the one you have to pay for?

sHa_ckwave · Sun Feb 27, 2005 6:52 pm

I did Atkins for a month, and while it did work, it had side-effects I could not deal with :

-Constant fatigue and light headed feeling (only had this one day so far with SB)
-Constant bad temperament (I was surly all the time)
-Constant cravings for carbs

I also hated the 'all or nothing' deal with Atkins induction... if you slipped you set yourself back and have to work hard to get back to ketosis... with all the cravings I had on Atkins, after a couple of weeks I was slipping and ending up back at beginning. Gotta say with SB, even though it's only been a week, the cravings are nothing compared to what they were on Atkins, I haven't had too many urges to slip.

RedRox · Sun Feb 27, 2005 6:56 pm

I think she was referring to SB Online. I'm pretty sure she subscribes there as well. Although they do have a "public" part of the site with updates and maybe the food lists that are free to anyone. Many of us also subscribe to their free Daily Dish newsletter (although it seems to be less and less useful as a source of new information) and so you often see a lot of info posted here from the Daily Dish source as well. So there is info available from the "official" site that you don't have to pay for, it just obviously isn't as much or as detailed as you would get if you were willing to pay them for the additional access and tools.

babice · Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:15 pm

redroxco wrote: I think she was referring to SB Online. I'm pretty sure she subscribes there as well.

Yes. Redroxco is right. I am paying for the official SB online website. It's helping me right now cuz I refer to it often to get ideas, recipes, and refer back to the allowed foods, etc. Plus, I do searches for stuff either when I have questions or others have questions. I like doing that. I learn better that way. :wink:

		Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next
Page 2 of 3